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Post by TimeOfDeath on Jul 12, 2024 20:08:24 GMT -5
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Post by stodgyayatollah on Jul 13, 2024 0:58:59 GMT -5
Weird that they won't let it on the archive. Don't have to like what happened to understand that it's part of doom's history. It's not like there isn't a billion shows and movies out there about murderers that people are fascinated by.
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Post by Bob Page on Jul 13, 2024 1:31:44 GMT -5
That logic has never added up. Mein Kampf is available for purchase, despite having been written by Hitler. You can even buy it on Amazon.com. Reading that book is not tantamount to supporting fascism. Just like playing UACLABS.wad isn't tantamount to wanting to shoot up a school or glorifying spree killers. Does anyone really believe that allowing people to play UACLABS.wad is going to somehow radicalize young people to commit violence against others, moreso than playing any other violent FPS user-created content?
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Post by gehenna on Jul 13, 2024 1:41:32 GMT -5
nah, wanting to feel somewhat virtuous seems to be the point and has been for a while. despite this being a good wad and the archive containing terry stuff and pr0n
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Post by killer5 on Jul 13, 2024 10:51:26 GMT -5
Tbh there are some things that are so extreme theh should be forgotten imo. Anything involving enjoyment from an author like this should be forgotten.
The Mein Kampf thing is a bit different because of its historical significance and can also be used to help identify the change in politics which started in Italy prior to WW2. The rise of appealing to peoples' emotions en masse to such a degree that you develop a level of pride to where you justify wiping out groups of people - especially considering the challenges facing Germany at the time. I use these historical events to help shape my decisions when determining who are the radicals I should be ignoring and to make sure that I never go too far in one direction myself.
Been ages since I was in a history class so probably getting the philosophy mixed up with what started in Italy prior to WW2 with Hitler taking advantage of the Germans at the time.
In any event the only thing that should be remembered from Columbine are the memories of the victims and their families. Nothing more. Imo anyways.
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Post by bugothecat on Jul 13, 2024 12:24:37 GMT -5
How many people might have played these WADs by accident without even knowing the authors history. They look and play like a lot of average WADs at the time. I cringe when some youtube channels try to play the "controversial" WADs and make it bigger than that, like "OMG, check what these teenagers wrote in the nfo file". Those were just typical angsty teenager nfo files and maps without sprite replacement (there was a rumour of other WADs by the authors where they added more blood,... THE HORROR). No really, you wouldn't have guessed anything horrible by these. There are other more disturbing WADs like that one where you are killing demonic waifus and the authors didn't end up becoming killers or something as far as I know.
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Post by Bob Page on Jul 14, 2024 0:18:21 GMT -5
Tbh there are some things that are so extreme theh should be forgotten imo. Anything involving enjoyment from an author like this should be forgotten. In any event the only thing that should be remembered from Columbine are the memories of the victims and their families. Nothing more. Imo anyways. This wad has zero to do with Columbine, other than the fact that one of the Columbine shooters created it. The wad doesn't take place in Columbine or in a school, it takes place in a DooM environment and you kill DooM monsters. O.J. Simpson played football for years professionally, then killed two people. So do we ban all the information, footage, and stats from games he played in, so that they aren't remembered and we can focus on the memories of the victims? Paul Bateson appeared as a radiologic technologist in a scene from the 1973 horror film The Exorcist, then later killed one person and is suspected of killing a few others. By your logic, we need to band The Exorcist so that we can focus on the memory of the victim. Sorry man, but it's a very stupid argument. |
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Post by stodgyayatollah on Jul 14, 2024 1:48:20 GMT -5
Yeah. Gacy's shitclown paintings for example are literal trash but there's no reason to burn them, outside of them being actual trash. UACLABS.WAD is a decent enough map for 96 so there's really no justification for it being excised from existence. It's not like a rotting corpse can derive satisfaction from people playing it or anything.
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Post by killer5 on Jul 14, 2024 4:52:53 GMT -5
Meh you are going up against my values. It is fine if you think it makes no sense. It makes sense to me though.
Don't mind if you think my argument is terrible. You are trying to tell me that something like a Doom wad which was also created solely by people who massacred kids and then offed themselves is somehow worth my time. The answer to that is of course no. Same for the wads talked about on doomerboards which werent wiped out by doomworld mods with blatant pedophelia. Na not worth remembering.
Not sure it would be fair to wipe out and entire movie because of one asshole (however maybe if it was his sole vision I might feel differently). I know nothing about the Exercist save for the premise.
Your sports example is an interesting one. I have personally gone down that road in the past with a few individuals and it did kind of ruin things a bit for me. Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Sammy Sosa, and Mark McGwire (spelling). So for me growing up I kind of idolized Tiger because I loved golf. Finding out about his behaviors on tour basically made me forget about him completely. Didn't destroy the sport obviously that would be idiotic but just made me forget him. Armstrong doping the entire time and lying about it. Same for me as Tiger. Sosa and McGwire especially because I loved watching their homerun race and was insanely disappointed after finding out they were doping too. People even said that they didn't really care about Sosa's corked bat thing but rather his doping which was incredibly disappointing iirc. I have basically forgotten these people exist and roll my eyes whenever I hear their names come up.
So I guess the stats would remain because it is part of something larger than a single person. But I won't remember him as someone I should give two shits about.
This is all different for me because the doom wad was created by someone who did something which I find so incredibly distasteful that.. I just can't put it into words. Not part of anything larger or involved other people.. nothing culturally or historical lyrics significant. Just a murderer.
So.. have to agree to disagree I guess.
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Post by VICE on Jul 14, 2024 6:47:33 GMT -5
killer5, I don't think anyone is claiming that everyone should play this wad. I didn't and probably won't myself.
The argument is that banning it purely for its affilitation is redundant since the wad itself has no direct link to anything illegal or awful, it was merely created by a person who has done something awful. Choosing to play it or not should be something left to the discretion of the individual.
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