Nightdive Doom Port & ID24

[stodgyayatollah]

Since some people here aren't active elsewhere I think this is a topic worth discussing.  I'll assume everyone is aware but if not a new "official" Doom port was released by Nightdive. It includes a pwad (id1.wad) with two new episodes titled Legacy Of Rust, mostly made by Nightdive with a couple maps made by id and MachineGames employees. It includes a fair amount of beta assets including new repurposed enemies. It also includes two weapon replacements for the plasma and bfg. The interesting part though is that this is not a Doom 2 format map set but instead uses a new format ID24, which basically expands on MBF1 with a few new features that can be found on the DoomWiki. The mapset does appear to run fine in MBF21 compatible ports without issue which is stated in the wadinfo. It does have a Doom 1 style intermission map that does't work though. This is also the first official port to support Boom and MBF, which is interesting but is also buggy from what I've seen. I haven't personally even loaded the port and likely never will. Only extracted the wads.

It has got people a bit riled up though.  A new mapping format alone is uncontroversial enough but when it is done under the umbrella of a corporate entity it has rubbed some people the wrong way. Personally I want modern id, bethesda, zenimax and microsoft as far away from the modding community as possible. There's already enough other elements infiltrating it to contend with. Any thoughts on the port, new maps or ID24?

[gehenna]

will never use that port either, nor am i in any hurry to play the maps, though i likely will. if the additions to mbf21 are as cosmetic as they seem to the uninitiated, then i doubt it will gain any meaningful traction -- mbf21 itself would be a paltry upgrade to mbf if not for dsdhacked shenanigans, whose only appeal is larping as (g)zdoomers in vanilla mapping formats. i believe we can pretend none of this happened quite ez, though i haven't looked at any discussion on this

[stodgyayatollah]

There's been a good amount of dissent on dw, leading to plenty of locking and forking. A lot of the usual community darlings look to be shilling, likely because corporate ties and monetization are a matter of self interest. If the format has any longevity it will be due to them because it really doesn't add enough to warrant it's existence from what I can tell. It does introduce id24hacked but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what's new or significant with it, if anything.  I do think it's good that they're trying to support Boom and MBF so casuals can get more of a taste of whats out there. Their upload system for custom wads appears to be a mess though. People uploading PK3s and wondering why they're not working, multiple uploads of the same wad, etc.

As for the maps, the fact that they released any commercial maps not in Doom 2 format is retarded. I can honestly say I wouldn't have gone out of my way to check them out if it wasn't a commercial set in the official port, that I happened to get free. If I saw it uploaded somewhere, with about half of the maps made by Xaser and using a bunch of beta assets it would have been low enough on my list that I would have likely never got around to it.


EDIT: It's probably worth using the MBF21 compatible port of your choice for anyone wanting to check out the new maps. Nightdive appears to have a buggy mess on their hands. Probably has to do with them having to code the Boom and MBF support form the ground up since they couldn't use the existing code in a commercial product. Or something like that if my layman brain is understanding things correct.

[killer5]

I really dislike the wad hosting aspect. I don't want something I made in the past, even if there is a fraction of a percent for this to happen, to benefit a modern gaming company in a financial manner. My shit should be available to everyone and free from corporate bullshit (especially if people on groomworld are making money off of this).

I can't remember if I bought the prior version. If I have to pay money for this will just skip it entirely and stick to boom or mbf21. I highly doubt anything they make will reach the heights of any of the best community stuff which is already free. None of the new enemies interest me.. plus the plasma marines are nerf'd.

Imo people should find a way to make all wads made from now on unplayable on the new port. Especially if the people in these companies are even close to being activists of any kind (like so many other gaming companies ruining the hobby).


Edit:
Hmmm I guess ACS isn't supported right? Will see what ports support this nonsense or I guess I could simply add a rogue 3d floor/portal to my new maps.

[stodgyayatollah]

The new monsters range from bad to meh. There's the plasma marine and the derpy looking cyb jr. Nothing too inoffensive about them. Certainly nothing new either. The projectile lost souls are even more annoying than the regular ones. I don't hate them but I don't think they were used well (that really goes for everything). The floating exploding barrels are literally just that and serve the same purpose, to kill other stuff. The cow skull thing is basically a baron that leaves damaging fire where they shoot. Not great. Haven't come across the mini mastermind yet but just knowing what it is I'm going to give it a meh preemptive.

I'm giving the mapset (that I will likely never play to completion) a rating of...

it has maps/complete indifference

[killer5]

Looked at one of the more challenge oriented maps in Legacy of Rust. It appears to have fallen into the trap of 'easy slaughter' where the player circle strafes for the entirety of most fights, has fights where the player can stand in one spot and win, or fights where a player can simply leave and shoot at monsters through a door. The final bit of circle strafing around cybs in an area where they easily get stuck was kind of.. yeah.

Some of this stuff is fine in a more open map built for speedrunning or the map is obviously not challenge/slaughter encounter design oriented.

I was very interested in Age of Hell's first release because I wanted to see what 'slaughter for the masses' would look like (read this as for people not in the community and also *paying money for maps*). The final bit of that demo was all circle strafe. The first part of the map had much more interesting gameplay (even though the primary draw was the new weapons/mechanics and nothing else).

I think I can learn a lot from these maps design-wise when it comes to more accessible gameplay. Mostly what not to do (I will never understand how running in a circle shooting lost souls with a chaingun is engaging). Am aware that controller usage was most likely a large part of the design requirements but I become confused when people are also asked to deal with Rev rockets en masse in a larger more complex area (not immediately obvious that circle strafe is a thing).

Will probably try making something more accessible again.. although I am still quite happy with my two secret maps in ehorizon (these on lower difficulties especially) and zzul bases. Tbh I think implementing scaling down ideas I had in Dimensions 2 would be great.. meh will see.

[killer5]

Yeah stodgy I was kind of miffed about the cyb. I really hope they give ribbiks credit for that idea.. also give credit to whoever originally created the slower plasma marines. I remember first seeing them in either 20x7 or in a2rob's work. But someone can definitely correct me there.

Edit:
Oh also the chaingun spiders were used in bloody rust iirc. Probably even earlier too.

[phalluscat]

head up, killer5. someone posted dimensions on mods.bethesda.net/en/doom_doomii/all

but if a kid loaded it up as an addon on their console and played it on UV, i think it would be unplayable and funny
otherwise i can report your stuff if u want if i see it

[killer5]

Tbh I could care less about people sharing my work.. or even copying it as has happened in the past.. except now it involves modern gaming companies (which I despise) and on top of that this involves people whom originally ended my Doom fun in 2021. I guess I will make an account and report it later.

If someone wants to play my shit then they can download it and load it up for free.. far away from this corporate bs.

[killer5]

As an aside. I am curious if people can now just copy a mapper's work and release it. I mean now people have a reason to do it right?

What a fucking joke if so.